Diskussion:Zerebelläre Abiotrophie

Testing for cerebellar abiotrophy (CA) is only available on horses. Vitamin D usage is not applicable to CA in horses. Szedlisa 23:44, 12. Mai 2009 (CEST)szedlisa szedlisa (nicht signierter Beitrag von 80.33.71.188 (Diskussion | Beiträge) 20:01, 12. Mai 2009 (CEST))

Help needed on Artikel Zerebelläre Abiotrophie

[1]

Please help. My apologies that German is not my mother language. I can not understand how to insert jpegs ( images) or how to correct the mistakes.

Por Favor ayudame. Mis disculpas que aleman no es mi idioma nativa. No puedo entender la manera de insertar los imagenes (jpegs) ni editarlo como toca. Llevo horas ententandolo.

Lo siento.

szedlisa 22:14, 2. Mai 2009 (CEST), Datum/Uhrzeit nachträglich eingefügt, siehe Hilfe:Signatur

Können Sie bei der Übersetzung Zerebelläre Abiotrophie aus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebellar_abiotrophy. Wir sprechen nicht Deutsch sehr gut. Danke! Montanabw 00:53, 6. Mai 2009 (CEST)

We cannot simply translate the article word by word, as this would violate copyright regulations. You can request that an admin move the English article to your German namespace at WP:IMP, where you can then start translating it. Please be aware that the German version of Wikipedia has considerably higher quality requirements (style, NPOV, references and verifiability) that the English version though. --Cú Faoil ^RM 01:36, 6. Mai 2009 (CEST)

Mein Deutsch ist nicht gut genug. Wir müssen helfen, die Übersetzung von jedermann, können/My German is not good enough. We need translation help from anyone who can assist. Montanabw 04:55, 8. Mai 2009 (CEST)

That is a legitimate request; however, if your German is not good, then you should not edit articles, as this is not compatible with our quality standards. What you can do is request changes on the discussion page, which can then be incorporated by someone familiar with the language. --Cú Faoil ^RM 23:52, 12. Mai 2009 (CEST)

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO!!! I removed the material on Vitamin D, it's wrong! This is a genetic disease. Montanabw 00:49, 13. Mai 2009 (CEST)

VETAMIN D has nothing to do with Vitamin D, but is an algorithm used in veterinary neurology. Besides, I told you to edit outside of the Article Namespace (English Version), not within it. Thanks. --Cú Faoil ^RM 01:28, 13. Mai 2009 (CEST)

VETAMIN D.If this algorithm is going to be used on the Zerebelläre Abiotrophie page, could you please update the VETAMIN D page to include Zerebelläre Abiotrophie in Hund, Katze, Araber Pferd so that it is not confused with Wobbler-Syndrom. Thank you. Szedlisa 12:35, 13. Mai 2009 (CEST)

In VETAMIN D there is only a selection of frequent neurological diseases in animals. I am not sure, in which category Zerebelläre Abiotrophie has to be inserted. According to Jaggy, there is presumably a metabolic component (ergo VETAMIN D), perhaps it is just a degenerative disease Therefore, it is necessary to find scientific papers, that make a precise allocation to the VETAMIN-D-algorithm, otherwise this would be theory finding which is not allowed in the German Wikipedia. Uwe G. ¿⇔? ^RM 14:36, 13. Mai 2009 (CEST)

VETAMIN D In the link supplied at the bottom of the Zerebelläre Abiotrophie page to the report by Dr. Alexander de Lahunta, he refers to this disorder on page 66 as a Cerebellar Degeneration and again on page 72 of his disertation. Dr. De Lahunta first published his results on cerebellar cortical abiotrophy in the Journal of Veterinary Medicine (1981)and refers to the condition as 'progressive and degenerative; it cannot be reversed or controlled by medication, activity, diet, or surgical procedure; absolute diagnosis is possible only by post-mortem examination of the cerebellum'. It is a genetic disorder not a disease and should be catagorized under the degenerative conditions (ergo VETAMIN D)Szedlisa17:54, 13. Mai 2009 (CEST)

As I read it, p. 73 of de Lahunta's paper does not allow a clear conclusion on whether the condition is metabolic/toxic or degenerative. Given its genetic base, I am inclined to believe in a metabolic component, but without clear sources, this would fall under WP:TF (English Version), as pointed out above by Uwe Gille. --Cú Faoil ^RM 22:35, 13. Mai 2009 (CEST)

OK, OK, we will not edit and thank you for explaining. Here's the situation, as Dr. de Lahunta explained it to me in layperson's terms. The horse is born apparently normal, the purkinje cells begin to "die off" and continue to do so for a period of 6 to 12 months, after which time the horse stabilizes. So it does seem degenerative for awhile, but then it stops. A horse with a mild case can live a normal lifespan. I will look over the other scientific articles I have to see if the metabolic vs degenerative issue is addressed. (nicht signierter Beitrag von Montanabw (Diskussion | Beiträge) 01:34, 14. Mai 2009 (CEST))

Why have the link to VETAMIN D, when there is no clear reference to Zerebelläre Abiotrophie ? No way to link back to the Zerebelläre Abiotrophie page. According to Sandy J, Slocombe R, Mitten R, Jedwab D (2002). "Cerebellar abiotrophy in a family of Border Collie dogs". Vet. Pathol. 39 (6): 736–8. doi:10.1354/vp.39-6-736. PMID 12450206., The exact cause of cerebellar abiotrophy is not known, but it is thought to be due to an intrinsic metabolic defect. The above article however, is based upon an unusual form of abiotrophy as described for two sibling Border Collies. Extensive loss of the cerebellar granular cell layer was present with relative sparing of Purkinje cells of two female pups.

In other studies in dog breeds and arabian horses , a greater loss of Purkinje cells is apparent with far less affect on the granular cell layer. The article does state that " Abiotrophy in the central nervous system results from spontaneous, premature and progressive neuronal degeneration and death, usually attributable to an unidentified intrinsic metabolic defect, and is distinct from programmed cell death that occurs as part of "normal" developmental processes in many tissues." However it sums up as " A mechanism to explain the primary degeneration of Purkinje cells in cerebellar abiotrophies has been attributable to excitotoxic degeneration." Until Wikipedia can resolve whether Zerebelläre Abiotrophieis a degenerative or a metabolic/toxic component, I strongly urge that the VETAMIN D link be removed as it is very confusing and was not a component of the original article. As soon as a catagory is established to the satisfaction of all, then of course it should be included. Research to date has not been able to establish why the Purkinje cells die off. Cerebellar Cortical Abiotrophy found only in arabian horses and their derivatives has been established as a genetically inherited simple autosomal recessive, which initiates post natum and produces clinical signs usually between 4 and 12 months with progressive degeneration usually up until 36 months when for some unknown reason the Purkinje cell apoptosis stops. It is not sex-linked as some cases in certain dog breeds.[[[Benutzer:szedlisa|szedlisa]] 21:59, 14. Mai 2009 (CEST)

The VETAMIN D article lists some other important neurological diseases and therefore possible differential diagnoses. Therefore, the link is useful, even when CA can not be allocated to this classification yet. -- Uwe G. ¿⇔? ^RM 07:32, 15. Mai 2009 (CEST)

I have contacted PD Dr. med. vet. Vincent Gerber, PhD, DACVIM, DECEIM, FVH, Head of Equine Internal Medicine, Equine Clinic, Dept. of Veterinary Clinical Studies, Vetsuisse-Fakulty, and Prof Dr. Tosso Leeb, molecular geneticist, also of the University of Berne for consultation on this point. I have been working with them both over the last 3 years as pedigree reviewer for CA. Thanking you for your help and your patience. SzedlisaSzedlisa 17:54, 15. Mai 2009 (CEST)

Replies from both Gerber and Leeb:

Point well taken. Thankyou Cú Faoil. I had no way of forwarding their reply by email to Dr. Uwe Gille. I shall leave it at this: Both Gerber and Leeb feel that CA should be placed into the degenerative section on the VETAMIN D page. However Prof Leeb points out that this is provisional until the underlying pathogenesis has been elucidated.Szedlisa 18:48, 15. Mai 2009 (CEST)Szedlisa

Are you sure if Leeb and Gerber would like to have their writing published on this site, where everybody can read it and where there is no personal copyright left? Please look into this. --Cú Faoil ^RM 21:06, 15. Mai 2009 (CEST)